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	<title>Comments on: The Question Concerning Digital Technology</title>
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	<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/</link>
	<description>we make books</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:37:51 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: John1012</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-37578</link>
		<dc:creator>John1012</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-37578</guid>
		<description>Very nice site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice site!</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Prefontaine</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29654</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Prefontaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29654</guid>
		<description>Been thinking about this too. Mike&#039;s fault; he got me reading Darin Barney. And talking about that Neal Stephenson book where folks just think for hundreds of years with no outside contact. The seeds were already planted when I was lent a copy of Ursula Franklin&#039;s The Real World of Technology. (I have to go back and re-read it.) Seems to me Tracey Lauriault&#039;s done some good thinking on this too (more reading). It&#039;s also part of the reason I&#039;ve been interested in hardware hackers. See Beth Kolko&#039;s talk at Berkman. I wish I&#039;ve had more time to delve into this. I feel sorta stupid about the whole thing. But have a sense that there&#039;s something to this argument and we should think deeply about it. (Although I am not sure I&#039;m able to think deeply much anymore...) One piece that stays with me is that there are values and decisions embedded in technology. I&#039;d like to be clearer on how to decode those. Hard to know what&#039;s not there. Like media framing: You don&#039;t know what was omitted. Mark Surman talks about keeping things hackable and I think there&#039;s something too that. Keeping technology flexible, changeable according to what people need. I&#039;ve been able to meet lots of people by working with technology. I like all the ideas that I have access too. But I feel overwhelmed and wonder if there is too much. Lately I find myself wondering if it wouldn&#039;t be better if I just put away my computer. For good. Of course, that means I&#039;d need to find a new job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been thinking about this too. Mike&#8217;s fault; he got me reading Darin Barney. And talking about that Neal Stephenson book where folks just think for hundreds of years with no outside contact. The seeds were already planted when I was lent a copy of Ursula Franklin&#8217;s The Real World of Technology. (I have to go back and re-read it.) Seems to me Tracey Lauriault&#8217;s done some good thinking on this too (more reading). It&#8217;s also part of the reason I&#8217;ve been interested in hardware hackers. See Beth Kolko&#8217;s talk at Berkman. I wish I&#8217;ve had more time to delve into this. I feel sorta stupid about the whole thing. But have a sense that there&#8217;s something to this argument and we should think deeply about it. (Although I am not sure I&#8217;m able to think deeply much anymore&#8230;) One piece that stays with me is that there are values and decisions embedded in technology. I&#8217;d like to be clearer on how to decode those. Hard to know what&#8217;s not there. Like media framing: You don&#8217;t know what was omitted. Mark Surman talks about keeping things hackable and I think there&#8217;s something too that. Keeping technology flexible, changeable according to what people need. I&#8217;ve been able to meet lots of people by working with technology. I like all the ideas that I have access too. But I feel overwhelmed and wonder if there is too much. Lately I find myself wondering if it wouldn&#8217;t be better if I just put away my computer. For good. Of course, that means I&#8217;d need to find a new job.</p>
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		<title>By: John Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29515</link>
		<dc:creator>John Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29515</guid>
		<description>Ha. Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha. Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh McGuire</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29510</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29510</guid>
		<description>Sure, fun  art is a fair swap I guess, and to the degree that it is found inside the artistic endeavors of tech-makers, I&#039;ll bite.

As for translation ... it&#039;s the translation of nature *into* standing reserve that gives technology its essence (for Heidegger). So mere translation isn&#039;t the &quot;problem&quot; ... it&#039;s, as you say,  &quot;translation of the &#039;essence&#039; of every thing into a means-ends utility.&quot; The key part is the end of the statement. 

If it were all getting translated into icecream, for instance, it might be less worrisome. Or more. But the crux of the concern is that standing reserve thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, fun  art is a fair swap I guess, and to the degree that it is found inside the artistic endeavors of tech-makers, I&#8217;ll bite.</p>
<p>As for translation &#8230; it&#8217;s the translation of nature *into* standing reserve that gives technology its essence (for Heidegger). So mere translation isn&#8217;t the &#8220;problem&#8221; &#8230; it&#8217;s, as you say,  &#8220;translation of the &#8216;essence&#8217; of every thing into a means-ends utility.&#8221; The key part is the end of the statement. </p>
<p>If it were all getting translated into icecream, for instance, it might be less worrisome. Or more. But the crux of the concern is that standing reserve thing.</p>
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		<title>By: John Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29508</link>
		<dc:creator>John Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29508</guid>
		<description>Agreed, Hugh. I don&#039;t really mean stuff on the web either; I&#039;m thinking on the larger scale of software and networks more generally. There is an awful lot of &#039;playfulness&#039; in the original design of the Internet, and in some of the more enlightened software paradigms (have a look at Lisp or Smalltalk -- extremely venerable traditions in compsci, that are made up of large doses of intellectual playfulness, rather than problem-solving, means-ends logic). 

Translation not good enough? Heidegger&#039;s charge was that technology made everything into &quot;standing reserves&quot;—this is a kind of translation of the &quot;essence&quot; of every thing into a means-ends utility. No?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, Hugh. I don&#8217;t really mean stuff on the web either; I&#8217;m thinking on the larger scale of software and networks more generally. There is an awful lot of &#8216;playfulness&#8217; in the original design of the Internet, and in some of the more enlightened software paradigms (have a look at Lisp or Smalltalk &#8212; extremely venerable traditions in compsci, that are made up of large doses of intellectual playfulness, rather than problem-solving, means-ends logic). </p>
<p>Translation not good enough? Heidegger&#8217;s charge was that technology made everything into &#8220;standing reserves&#8221;—this is a kind of translation of the &#8220;essence&#8221; of every thing into a means-ends utility. No?</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh McGuire</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29503</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29503</guid>
		<description>I think tech as translator is not a satisfying enough description of technology ... it does not get to the essence of the thing.

But I agree with the fun, I think, as the anti-efficient. But I&#039;m not talking about &quot;stuff that is available on the web&quot; but rather, the kinds of tools that &quot;we&quot; are building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think tech as translator is not a satisfying enough description of technology &#8230; it does not get to the essence of the thing.</p>
<p>But I agree with the fun, I think, as the anti-efficient. But I&#8217;m not talking about &#8220;stuff that is available on the web&#8221; but rather, the kinds of tools that &#8220;we&#8221; are building.</p>
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		<title>By: John Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29477</link>
		<dc:creator>John Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29477</guid>
		<description>Nice, Hugh.

If you think about technology as the translation of things into other things, then the danger Heidegger points to is that everything ends up as a translation of everything else, or else a means of translation. It&#039;s not so hard to think of the Internet and digital technology this way: everything becomes bits; bits get spooled and streamed this way and that, and most of the interesting development is in more efficient ways of streaming and channeling bits around: standards, protocols, services. 

So the danger, in concrete terms, is that we become RSS feeds, or Twitterstreams; that friendships and other meaningful relations are reduced to bitstreams, that &#039;experience&#039; gets mashed into UXD, etc.

I think the antidote—and this is following Heidegger pretty closely, I think—is to make sure we keep our eye on the playful, and not just the efficient. The Net is really wonderful for this, for there&#039;s at probably more playful, wacky, artful stuff out there than the corporate/institutional/economic drive-to-greater utility/efficiency/businessmodel stuff. In our dayjobs, and in our day-to-day work, it probably makes sense to try to keep an eye on that distinction, and not get too tangled up in the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice, Hugh.</p>
<p>If you think about technology as the translation of things into other things, then the danger Heidegger points to is that everything ends up as a translation of everything else, or else a means of translation. It&#8217;s not so hard to think of the Internet and digital technology this way: everything becomes bits; bits get spooled and streamed this way and that, and most of the interesting development is in more efficient ways of streaming and channeling bits around: standards, protocols, services. </p>
<p>So the danger, in concrete terms, is that we become RSS feeds, or Twitterstreams; that friendships and other meaningful relations are reduced to bitstreams, that &#8216;experience&#8217; gets mashed into UXD, etc.</p>
<p>I think the antidote—and this is following Heidegger pretty closely, I think—is to make sure we keep our eye on the playful, and not just the efficient. The Net is really wonderful for this, for there&#8217;s at probably more playful, wacky, artful stuff out there than the corporate/institutional/economic drive-to-greater utility/efficiency/businessmodel stuff. In our dayjobs, and in our day-to-day work, it probably makes sense to try to keep an eye on that distinction, and not get too tangled up in the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh McGuire</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29408</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29408</guid>
		<description>Mike,
I&#039;m not sure what you mean by this: &quot;the original question is egocentric &amp; self-serving&quot; ... ? Could you clarify?

And yes, I would put movable type, printing, mass media etc in the same pile as other technologies such as RSS &amp; RFID &amp; the Palm Pre with a working version of pre-Amazon Stanza ... I&#039;m not criticizing any of it, just wondering aloud about the things we might lose, I suppose, in the trade. 

Also: how do you know that humans are the only part of nature that can derive meaning?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,<br />
I&#8217;m not sure what you mean by this: &#8220;the original question is egocentric &amp; self-serving&#8221; &#8230; ? Could you clarify?</p>
<p>And yes, I would put movable type, printing, mass media etc in the same pile as other technologies such as RSS &amp; RFID &amp; the Palm Pre with a working version of pre-Amazon Stanza &#8230; I&#8217;m not criticizing any of it, just wondering aloud about the things we might lose, I suppose, in the trade. </p>
<p>Also: how do you know that humans are the only part of nature that can derive meaning?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cane</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29403</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29403</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt;we in the tech world imbue this stuff with a magical capacity to improve people’s lives, and I don’t think it’s clear that it has

Comments like that get my back up.  Did moveable type improve things?  Printing?  Mass media?  Yes.

The original question is self-serving, egocentric, and simply blind.  Had someone looked in on my childhood, they would have asked what damned good would it have been for a set of the World Book to be at my disposal.  Why, I could have simply trudged to the library.

And the Heidegger hypothesis needs to be put in its box: humans are the only part of nature that can derive *meaning* from it.  And so, we order it to derive, find, and yes, even categorize, the meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;we in the tech world imbue this stuff with a magical capacity to improve people’s lives, and I don’t think it’s clear that it has</p>
<p>Comments like that get my back up.  Did moveable type improve things?  Printing?  Mass media?  Yes.</p>
<p>The original question is self-serving, egocentric, and simply blind.  Had someone looked in on my childhood, they would have asked what damned good would it have been for a set of the World Book to be at my disposal.  Why, I could have simply trudged to the library.</p>
<p>And the Heidegger hypothesis needs to be put in its box: humans are the only part of nature that can derive *meaning* from it.  And so, we order it to derive, find, and yes, even categorize, the meaning.</p>
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		<title>By: Paula Berinstein</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/07/02/the-question-concerning-digital-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-29400</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula Berinstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2079#comment-29400</guid>
		<description>All good, Hugh. I&#039;m anxious to see what you&#039;re cooking up.

Hee hee! I made a pun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good, Hugh. I&#8217;m anxious to see what you&#8217;re cooking up.</p>
<p>Hee hee! I made a pun.</p>
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