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	<title>Comments on: Evolving with the book</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/</link>
	<description>we make books</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:01:33 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Jenlbame</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-54946</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenlbame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 16:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-54946</guid>
		<description>Niksralk say: I apologise, but it not absolutely approaches me. Perhaps there are still variants?
 
_____________
&lt;a href=&quot;http://lavetra.tadacip-usa.info/site_map.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lavetra
 generic Florida
  8&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niksralk say: I apologise, but it not absolutely approaches me. Perhaps there are still variants?</p>
<p>_____________<br />
<a href="http://lavetra.tadacip-usa.info/site_map.html" rel="nofollow">lavetra<br />
 generic Florida<br />
  8</a></p>
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		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-37868</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-37868</guid>
		<description>thank for the The WebKit link, Eric, From France</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank for the The WebKit link, Eric, From France</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving with the book</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-23661</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving with the book</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-23661</guid>
		<description>[...] the debate about “how do we make money if we didn’t lock down digital books”, a topic that click for more             var gaJsHost = ((&quot;https:&quot; == document.location.protocol) ? &quot;https://ssl.&quot; : [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the debate about “how do we make money if we didn’t lock down digital books”, a topic that click for more             var gaJsHost = ((&#8221;https:&#8221; == document.location.protocol) ? &#8220;https://ssl.&#8221; : [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Zander</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-22565</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Zander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-22565</guid>
		<description>Apart from webkit based rendering I&#039;m thinking that it would make a lot of sense to look at ODF. The OpenDocument Format is meant for having rich content and its generated / rendered by applications like KOffice on just about any platform already.

html/css is much more limited (tabs not allowed!) for professional text layout, this is where ODF shines.  Things like reflowing text is also possible if the odf reader chooses to ignore the page settings (or only use them as a hint ;)

ps. why are your blog entries not showing up on identi.ca anymore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apart from webkit based rendering I&#8217;m thinking that it would make a lot of sense to look at ODF. The OpenDocument Format is meant for having rich content and its generated / rendered by applications like KOffice on just about any platform already.</p>
<p>html/css is much more limited (tabs not allowed!) for professional text layout, this is where ODF shines.  Things like reflowing text is also possible if the odf reader chooses to ignore the page settings (or only use them as a hint ;)</p>
<p>ps. why are your blog entries not showing up on identi.ca anymore?</p>
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		<title>By: #BCTO09 - Summary &#124; Random Musings</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-21109</link>
		<dc:creator>#BCTO09 - Summary &#124; Random Musings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-21109</guid>
		<description>[...] Evolving with the book [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Evolving with the book [...]</p>
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		<title>By: steph</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-20917</link>
		<dc:creator>steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-20917</guid>
		<description>Hi Keith, thanks for your comment! I would be really interested in finding out in more detail why it&#039;s difficult (in terms of e-reader implementation) to override default rendering -- considering separating style from content/markup using CSS is precisely what allows users to create their own styles. That said, I&#039;m speaking from knowledge as a (former) interface developer and how rendering engines behave when you feed it the right things, and not someone who&#039;s had to dig deep into the guts of something like WebKit :) 

According to Henry Petroski&#039;s &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.librarything.com/work/22247&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Book on the Bookshelf&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, the book as we know it is portrait because from an engineering standpoint, it is stronger to bind the book on its longer edge. It&#039;s fascinating that something as simple as that has influenced how we perceive the form and format of the book for centuries, and how it&#039;s influenced design of things like the Kindle, or Sony Reader - in a world whereby we need no longer be tied to a portrait format. That said, art and photography books have traditionally been more experimental, and have been produced with different sizes and book formats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Keith, thanks for your comment! I would be really interested in finding out in more detail why it&#8217;s difficult (in terms of e-reader implementation) to override default rendering &#8212; considering separating style from content/markup using CSS is precisely what allows users to create their own styles. That said, I&#8217;m speaking from knowledge as a (former) interface developer and how rendering engines behave when you feed it the right things, and not someone who&#8217;s had to dig deep into the guts of something like WebKit :) </p>
<p>According to Henry Petroski&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://www.librarything.com/work/22247" rel="nofollow">The Book on the Bookshelf&#8221;</a>, the book as we know it is portrait because from an engineering standpoint, it is stronger to bind the book on its longer edge. It&#8217;s fascinating that something as simple as that has influenced how we perceive the form and format of the book for centuries, and how it&#8217;s influenced design of things like the Kindle, or Sony Reader &#8211; in a world whereby we need no longer be tied to a portrait format. That said, art and photography books have traditionally been more experimental, and have been produced with different sizes and book formats.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Fahlgren</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-20876</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Fahlgren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-20876</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
So, a question remains. Webkit is open-source. So is Gecko. ePub content is XML, XHTML/CSS. So why do so few e-readers re-use these rendering technologies that are freely available, instead of reinventing the wheel?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My understanding (after asking this very directly to implementers) is that using Webkit makes it &lt;strong&gt;tremendously&lt;/strong&gt; harder to:

override default rendering  (wrapping poetry or code, say, inside a tiny viewport)
allow users to customize 1000 tiny things about the typography of their ebooks (hint: I hate this)
add notes, annotations, and bookmarks

I only recently learned this, so I haven&#039;t been able to do my own investigations to understand how much of these are concrete limitations rather than just not-trivial-to-dos.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I challenged the audience to question why books were traditionally portrait but not landscape, and how it’s influenced even the design of e-readers today&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It was fascinating to watch the way in which the landscape &lt;a href=&quot;http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596802813/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Twitter Book&lt;/a&gt; challenged all sorts of assumptions inside O&#039;Reilly (also, to a lesser extent, the squarish &lt;a href=&quot;http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;slide:ology&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
So, a question remains. Webkit is open-source. So is Gecko. ePub content is XML, XHTML/CSS. So why do so few e-readers re-use these rendering technologies that are freely available, instead of reinventing the wheel?
</p></blockquote>
<p>My understanding (after asking this very directly to implementers) is that using Webkit makes it <strong>tremendously</strong> harder to:</p>
<p>override default rendering  (wrapping poetry or code, say, inside a tiny viewport)<br />
allow users to customize 1000 tiny things about the typography of their ebooks (hint: I hate this)<br />
add notes, annotations, and bookmarks</p>
<p>I only recently learned this, so I haven&#8217;t been able to do my own investigations to understand how much of these are concrete limitations rather than just not-trivial-to-dos.</p>
<blockquote><p>I challenged the audience to question why books were traditionally portrait but not landscape, and how it’s influenced even the design of e-readers today</p></blockquote>
<p>It was fascinating to watch the way in which the landscape <a href="http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596802813/" rel="nofollow">Twitter Book</a> challenged all sorts of assumptions inside O&#8217;Reilly (also, to a lesser extent, the squarish <a href="http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/" rel="nofollow">slide:ology</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Stream of BookCamp Toronto #BCTO Related Links &#124; INDEX // mb</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-20854</link>
		<dc:creator>Stream of BookCamp Toronto #BCTO Related Links &#124; INDEX // mb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-20854</guid>
		<description>[...] Stephanie Troeth at BookOven [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stephanie Troeth at BookOven [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley Robb</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-20706</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-20706</guid>
		<description>Bravo. I was quite surprised the first time I cracked open an ePub and realized I knew everything that was in there. Turns out, we just need the reader technology to catch up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo. I was quite surprised the first time I cracked open an ePub and realized I knew everything that was in there. Turns out, we just need the reader technology to catch up.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Barker</title>
		<link>http://blog.bookoven.com/2009/06/08/evolving-with-the-book/comment-page-1/#comment-20697</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bookoven.com/?p=2009#comment-20697</guid>
		<description>Great post.  Interesting to ponder how these hangups will be dealt with when we really break through into the next generation of books, with layered storytelling, reader participation etc, of the sort Peter Brantley raised in his session.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  Interesting to ponder how these hangups will be dealt with when we really break through into the next generation of books, with layered storytelling, reader participation etc, of the sort Peter Brantley raised in his session.</p>
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